David Feinleib: Welcome back to Beyond the Shelf. Today I’m joined by Helen Makri from Ferrero. Helen, so great to see you.
Helen Makri: Absolutely wonderful to see you too, Dave. Thank you so much for having me on the show.
David Feinleib: Thanks for doing this. First off, what a pleasure to have you as a partner, we really appreciate it, and I’m excited to have you as a guest. Lots of great content for us to talk about, but before we get into it, I want to talk about how you got your start. Take us back, tell us about your role at Ferrero, what it involves, and what you’re working on.
Building E-Commerce From the Ground Up at Ferrero
Helen Makri: I’ve been in e-commerce for quite some time now, I won’t tell you exactly how many years, but when I joined Ferrero, about five and a half years ago, it was a really exciting opportunity. The e-commerce team was very small at that point, this was around the COVID days, and when I started, we didn’t have a lot of visibility across the broader Ferrero organization. We didn’t have much connection to teams cross-functionally, they weren’t familiar with us, or with e-commerce in general, or why it mattered. So it took a lot of introducing ourselves and educating people cross-functionally.
When we started, we didn’t have a content agency, we didn’t have any content support systems, tools, or platforms. We essentially took the content our brand teams had created and repurposed it for e-commerce, which obviously isn’t the right approach. But over the years, we pushed, we educated, and we gained a lot of support along the way. Our team has grown so much, we now have a wonderful group of knowledgeable people who are extremely passionate about everything we do and about helping Ferrero grow and succeed. We’ve also brought on an e-commerce content agency that’s helped us build strategic, well-optimized content across the retailer landscape, and we’ve adopted a number of tools for optimization.
It’s been exciting to see how far we’ve come, and everything we’ve accomplished along the way.
David Feinleib: It’s amazing, and you’re such a natural networker, I’d bet a big part of this success has been the team you’ve been able to build and put together. Before we get into content, tell us about the Ferrero catalog, the brand portfolio. We all know Ferrero, but I think our audience may not realize just how extensive the product lineup is.
Inside Ferrero’s Portfolio
Helen Makri: There’s a lot more than you’d expect, and we keep acquiring more brands, so it gets more interesting all the time. Obviously, because of the name, people know Ferrero Rocher, but we have a lot of other large brands in our portfolio too, including Nutella, Kinder Joy, Kinder Bueno, and now Kinder Chocolate. We have Tic Tac. We have a number of brands under the Keebler portfolio, Famous Amos, Mother’s, Royal Dansk, and we’ve recently integrated Power Crunch as well. We’ve got a lot under our belt, a lot of different flavors, and we continue to expand.
David Feinleib: It’s amazing. Talking about the portfolio, tell us about some of the challenges and opportunities that come with managing something as large and comprehensive as Ferrero’s.
The Challenges of Managing a Large, Growing Portfolio
Helen Makri: There are always a lot of challenges, and we’re a small team, so staying in tune with each other and understanding priorities is really important. Across the board, aligning support and timelines for all of our content projects and managing everything in parallel is always a challenge, along with managing relationships and expectations across multiple brand teams and cross-functional teams. And of course, we’re always offering continuous education on e-commerce best practices and optimization needs. It goes without saying that bandwidth and budget will always be a factor too.
David Feinleib: A hundred percent. You mentioned retailers, so on the brand side you’ve got this extensive portfolio, but what do brands struggle with, what are they trying to solve when it comes to scaling e-commerce content across a multi-retailer ecosystem?
What Brands Struggle With in a Multi-Retailer Ecosystem
Helen Makri: On the brand side, the expectation tends to be that all PDPs should look exactly the same, as opposed to having custom content depending on each retailer’s needs, restrictions, preferences, and consumers. There’s also the question of what optimization actually looks like. Brands are often heavily focused on the brand look and feel and brand messaging, but you also have to take into account bottom-funnel needs and what it actually takes to drive conversion. From the e-commerce team’s side, I’d say the biggest challenges are often getting content live, and then keeping it live.
David Feinleib: Great insights. Retailer-specific content, getting it live, keeping it live, couldn’t have said it better. Ferrero has been working with It’s Rapid, and we’re grateful for the partnership. Tell us about that, what challenges were you trying to solve before you decided to work with us?
Why Ferrero Partnered With It’s Rapid
Helen Makri: It was really important for us to understand how to create strategic elements that convert, as opposed to just attractive visuals, pretty pictures that don’t actually tackle shopper barriers or drive conversion. That was the main goal.
David Feinleib: So great content, but high-converting content, if I can put it that way.
Helen Makri: Absolutely, yes.
David Feinleib: When you work with us at It’s Rapid, what capabilities are you using?
Testing Content Before It Goes Live
Helen Makri: Right now, with It’s Rapid Optics, we’re using the content testing tool to test our content as we’re developing it, rather than going back after the fact and trying to improve what’s already live. We do that too, but our focus is on creating well-optimized content right from the start, before it goes live. Developing strategic, optimized e-commerce content is a science. With the content testing tool, we’re looking for insights into what we can improve to make an image more appealing, but also more strategic, since each individual image has its own purpose in the carousel, and we want each one performing as strongly as possible for that particular need.
David Feinleib: So well said, you’re putting the science to work very early in the process to make sure you’ve got the right assets in front of the shopper.
Helen Makri: Absolutely. You only get one chance to make a good first impression.
David Feinleib: A hundred percent. Tell us about the selection process, how did you land on It’s Rapid as a partner?
Choosing a Content Testing Partner
Helen Makri: Developing strategic, optimized content is a science, so when we were looking for a content testing tool, we wanted something beyond basic heat mapping. We wanted the ability to apply appropriate U.S. consumer audiences, that was really important to us, along with insights that were reasonably easy to interpret. A lot of the platforms we reviewed offer tools that appear to surface strong insights, but once you dig in, those insights can be difficult to understand, or inconsistent, or not based on the criteria you actually care about. Many of them also don’t give you the ability to adjust audiences to your specific needs, or allow for much customization at all, it’s often an out-of-the-box design you can’t tailor.
When we reviewed Optics, the user experience was much cleaner, the insights were clear, and there was real opportunity to customize for our specific audience needs. All of that, combined with the actual testing we did and the demos we reviewed, is what helped us make the decision to choose It’s Rapid.
David Feinleib: Thank you again for the partnership, it’s been incredible working with your team. Tell us about the experience from your side.
The Optics Experience So Far
Helen Makri: We’re having a lot of fun with Optics right now. We especially appreciate the flexibility the tool allows, and we have a wonderful support team at It’s Rapid, they’re super helpful, open to feedback, and often able to make adjustments here and there. The preview visual we receive in the tool is also extremely helpful for guiding our agency’s design decisions.
David Feinleib: To get tactical for a moment, what are some of the specific use cases, beyond pre-testing as you’re developing assets? How else are you using the tool?
Helen Makri: Right now we’re doing a lot of A/B testing for hero images, sometimes A/B/C testing, and a lot of secondary image tests as well. We want to learn how to improve discoverability and search results, and then conversion once consumers actually get to the page. We also use it to help educate our brand team, pulling data and examples out of Optics to show them what visuals we should be aiming for on the PDPs. We plan to do a lot more testing going forward too, there’s a lot of opportunity in the tool, and one thing on my list is to start testing copy and messaging as well.
David Feinleib: Thrilled to be working with you on all of this, I love building new capabilities together. I want to switch gears, though, because I could ask you a thousand more questions about A/B testing, but I have to talk to you about Nutella Peanut. That was an incredible launch for Ferrero earlier this spring. First, tell us about the product.
Launching Nutella Peanut
Helen Makri: It’s delicious. I think once you’ve had even a small taste, you’re hooked, and it becomes a staple in your pantry. Everyone I know who’s tried it has fallen in love with it. It’s actually hard for us to get our hands on in the office because it’s so popular. It was an amazing launch for us too, being able to introduce something genuinely new for the brand, since we hadn’t done that for Nutella in quite a few years.
David Feinleib: It’s incredible, and we were delighted to be part of it. Tell us about the e-commerce side of a launch like that, what are the challenges, and what are the opportunities?
Helen Makri: For a high-visibility product launch like Nutella Peanut, everyone needs to be on the same page, and you need that alignment well in advance. I start strategic content planning much earlier than people might expect, especially for something this visible. I start conversations with brand teams very early in the process, to make sure they understand what deadlines to expect and what’s needed, from briefing information to supplied brand assets, so all sides understand the timeline and requirements.
One learning I can share is that for the initial introduction of a genuinely new product, not just a variation on something existing, the focus on awareness and messaging is key, and that often takes priority over strong optimization at first. You want to find the right balance between awareness and conversion, launch with a strong first impression, help consumers understand the product and relate to it and want it, and then you can re-optimize afterward, once they’ve become familiar with it.
David Feinleib: Such a great perspective, you get that first impression, and then you have the ability to update and optimize the content over time.
Helen Makri: Of course, and you should always be optimizing.
David Feinleib: Always be optimizing, the e-commerce version of always be closing. I love it.
Helen Makri: Exactly, content is never “set it and forget it.”
Localizing Content for Global Markets
David Feinleib: Ferrero is in so many markets around the world, a truly global company with global content needs. How do you think about localization and bringing that content to all these markets?
Helen Makri: We focus very heavily on U.S. content here, but you have to be knowledgeable about the unique needs of each region or market. Different regions and audiences respond very differently to content, everything from colors, to how busy or uncluttered an image is, to the messaging you choose, to whether a model in the visual is making eye contact with the viewer or facing away. All of those details matter. It’s really key to understand what works for your region, ideally by building a strong, optimized base visual and then understanding how to adjust it for each region and each audience’s needs.
Building the Right Team and Partner Structure
David Feinleib: So well put, there’s a lot of nuance, and you really need a deep understanding of the market. I’ve got so many more questions I could ask, Helen, I may have to have you back for a second appearance on Beyond the Shelf. But I do want to ask about teams and structure, setting yourself up for success. What are the rules of the road? How do you think about the best way to structure e-commerce broadly, and build teams the way you have?
Helen Makri: Looking back at my experience building out external support over the years, going through multiple RFPs and so on, I’d say those days are gone where you could rely on one agency to cover everything, your overall brand and retailer strategy, content development, proper optimization, publishing to retailers, all the way down to test-and-learn and reporting. It’s unlikely today that you’ll find one entity that’s strong in every single area. The landscape has changed, and it’s important to partner with people and platforms that have real expertise in the specific area you need support in, and relevant experience in your category and your market or country.
One watch-out I’d mention: a partner with strong experience in another country may not translate well to your needs in the country where you actually operate. It might be easier to manage a single partner or agency for everything, but that’s not always what’s best for your business or your evolution plans. I’d say stay open to multiple partners, when you start your search you don’t always know where you’ll end up or what you’ll discover once you’re interviewing potential partners and teams, so at least be open to a dedicated tool or partner for specific needs.
Some teams do have strong internal support, but it’s also valuable to align with an outside partner who’s constantly learning from working across other clients, staying on top of what retailers are looking for, since that’s always changing, what competitors are doing, what’s changing with technology, new functionality becoming available across certain retailers. Partners like that can help you stay current internally and get ahead of what’s happening out there.
David Feinleib: So well said, you’ve got to have the right team, the right partners, and the right capabilities, and you’ve done an amazing job putting all of that together. I really enjoyed learning today about where this capability started and how it’s evolved. And for our listeners, if you haven’t tried Nutella Peanut, you should go do that.
Rapid-Fire Questions
David Feinleib: Before I let you go, our rapid rundown, a few fast-paced questions, just your quick thoughts. First off, your favorite product in the Ferrero portfolio.
Helen Makri: It’s tough to choose, and we have a lot of treats in the office, so it’s a delicious buffet. But right now I’m a little obsessed with the new Nutella and Kinder Bueno ice cream offerings. I can’t decide which one I like better, so I always keep both in the house.
David Feinleib: One retail or e-commerce trend you’re paying close attention to right now.
Helen Makri: I wouldn’t quite call it a trend, but definitely agentic shopping and everything that comes with it, the impact of AI on discoverability and decision-making for consumers. That evolution is happening much faster than ever now, and I think most teams would say it’s at the top of their list.
David Feinleib: One content or creative mistake, or missed opportunity, you see brands making too often.
Helen Makri: Specific to e-commerce content, I’d say it’s focusing more on brand-specific appearance and messaging than on the bottom-funnel, conversion-driving elements and optimization that are needed. And the opportunity is listening to the consumer, understanding how they’re actually enjoying and using your product, rather than how you assume they are.
David Feinleib: Great insights. At the end of a busy week, what do you like to do to unwind?
Helen Makri: I love getting together with friends, we like trying new restaurants on the weekends. Really it’s about good conversation and good wine.
David Feinleib: Love it. Helen, it’s been a real pleasure having you on Beyond the Shelf. What’s the best way for our listeners to learn more about Ferrero?
Helen Makri: There are so many ways, but I’d say you can get a lot of news and information from the Instagram account for Ferrero North America, and of course on LinkedIn as well.
David Feinleib: Wonderful, Helen Makri from Ferrero, thanks so much for joining me today here on Beyond the Shelf.
Helen Makri: Thank you so much, Dave, for having me. It was so much fun, and I look forward to talking with you again in the future.
David Feinleib: We’ll have you back on. Thanks, Helen.
Helen Makri: Thank you so much.